2006-12-04

Valour



While the troops commanded by Ratko Mladić (price: 600 million Euros) carried out the massive killings in Srebrenica, the Dutch peacekeeping troops who were there to protect the victims did nothing. Today the members of that infamous Dutch battalion were presented with medals by their defence minister. Minister Henk Kamp says that in trading thousands of civilians under their protection, for summary execution in exchange for fourteen Dutch officers, Colonel Thom Kerremans and the rest of Dutchbat III "did their utmost." As Mr Kamp is doing, no doubt. Here is a site at which you can send a postcard of congratulations to the Government of The Netherlands, the Embassy of the Netherlands in Sarajevo, the brave soldiers of Dutchbat 3, and the Netherlands Ministry of Defence. Bravery is as bravery does, after all.

31 comments:

Seesaw said...

Shame! Sramota! What else can one say?!? Yes, aferim!

Anonymous said...

If you guys wouldnt make war all the time it wouldn't happen anyway.

G (Netherlands) said...

Yes, they did what they could - which wasn't a whole lot and which wasn't their fault.
This medal is being rewarded for 'having been there'.

Having said that, the Dutch government could have taken a moment to reflect on how this looks to the rest of the world.
They walked away, thousands got killed and they get a medal.
It gives me the creeps that they didn't consider that for a moment.

Anonymous said...

fighting would have meant suicide, since the british and french refused to provide air suppport or artillery. not that this was the best of solutions, but the european union should take responsibility instead of putting it on dutchbat..

Eric Gordy said...

Greetings to visitors from the Netherlands! I believe that most of you are coming from the popular site http://www.geenstijl.nl/. Your contributions to the discussion are most welcome. I am afraid that I will not be around the computer much today, so my apologies if any replies from me are late or missing.

Anonymous said...

Damn... mother f*ckers..... who killed those people.... the dutch or the bosnian-serbs?

This is so full of shit.... go complaining at the serb goverment instead of acussing the dutch.

Anonymous said...

Bosnia was well compensated, they should stfu!.

Anonymous said...

Blame the French General who called off the air support. Dutch F-16's were already bombing the tanks of Mladic, but were called off by supreme Nato commander, the infamous French general.
BTW: The first laserguided bombs were dropped by a female F-16 pilot.
What Dutchbat was supposed to do then? Fight a battle they could not win? Nobody wanted this to happen, except maybe Serbs. Easy to blame the Dutch, start blaming the French!

Anonymous said...

The thing in was that the soldiers were not prepared and instructed to keep at non violence.

So the best that they could do was well nothing. Helping to rebuild the mess that was made. And if anything happened talking to the "bad" guys, please do not do that, stop that.

The soldiers here are all traumatised by what they saw. So they didn't do anything for the fun of it!

Anonymous said...

The thing in was that the soldiers were not prepared and instructed to keep at non violence.

So the best that they could do was well nothing. Helping to rebuild the mess that was made. And if anything happened talking to the "bad" guys, please do not do that, stop that.

The soldiers here are all traumatised by what they saw. So they didn't do anything for the fun of it!

Anonymous said...

Thanks to the UN they didn't have te proper weapens and mandate.

Thanks to the, once again, unreliable French, there wasn'n any air-support.

Only politics is to blame for the fact the enclave wasn't properly protected.
Only the killers are to blame for te deaths.

Henk said...

Blame the Dutch goverment, blame the UN and especially blame the Serbs who did the killing. But do not blame the soldiers themselves.

Dutch troops were put in a hopeless situation and had nothing to defend Srebrenica with. Locked between two groups of people who killed eachother every chance they got. Some of the Dutch troops were wounded and killed by the very people they were there for to protect.

Anonymous said...

Just remember, Dutchbat DID NOT have a mandate from the UN to use force in any way, nor were they armed to do so (try stop a tank with a pistol...). Send your postcards to Kofi Anan.

Anonymous said...

For me as a Dutch citizen is was very shocking to see on TV the dramatic story of Screbrenica back in 1995.

In a democracy the the reposibility lies with the government and after an investigation our government withdrew.

The worst thing a army can do is Mutiny. Even if the circumstances were extremely difficult, there was no munity.

Anton said...

It´s been more then 10 years since your last war. Isn´t it time for another one? You all have to keep the tradition up right?

If you had known how to protect yourself you wouldn´t have needed the Dutch. Don´t blame the Dutch for killings in a war you ALL Croats, Muslims, Serbs) started.

de StoorZender said...

First of all, blame the serbs.

Second, what does your country do these days to help protect world peace? Are you in Afghanistan? Iraq?

Nope.

Anonymous said...

The Serbs are motherf.ckers. They were and they still are. Greetings from the Netherlands.

Anonymous said...

Aferim...on your one sided view. Aferim...to the people who caused this war in the first place, both on the Serbian and Bosnian side. And finally aferim to your grandfathers who undoubtfully earned more medals than Dutchbat.
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/History/ww2/photo/muslimss.gif

Anonymous said...

Believe me, a lot of Dutch people don't even understand why our troops are 'rewarded' with this badge. Anyway, the sceptics over here already renamed it as a 'failure badge', which should not be worn in public...
Greetings from Holland,
Randall

Anonymous said...

The Dutch soldiers did a great job. 13.000 people (women and children) were rescued by them.
Remeber, the enclave was completely surrounded by Serb troops with artillery, while the Dutch and the muslims were all gathered in a few square kilometres. Think of what could have happen if Mladic gave orders to fire with that artillery...

Anonymous said...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119873/

I think you guys should see this film and you will understand...

Anonymous said...

Dutch troops did not start the war! They were send there to protect people from killing each other. Unfortunately they never got the equipment to do a proper job. Send a postcard to the French government asking where was air-support? Send postcard to Mr. Annan why Dutch troops were not allow to fight. Better is to send a postcard to the Dutch soldiers to thank them for all the effort they did including risking their liver for a war they never started!!!! Two of them even died in that country. A medal is the least these guys deserve.

Anonymous said...

Wondering if you'd consider suicide if put in the same situation.(read: when solving other ppl's wars)

See sarcasm makes the post sound funny but i guess you're trying to be just that.

Unfortunately you have no idea what the mandate for the operation was also you conveniently forget abt the other troops that where stationed there but for the better of politics did not support the dutch.
Thanks for looking objective to things and not be subjective in anway..

Anonymous said...

You've got nerves!!!

After more than 10 years still keeping a myth alive (Dutch soldiers to blame) where the real quilty ones are staying unblamed.

If you have the guts to go on posting these lies, then also have the guts to call upon the killer-hands, the chicken-shit politics who caused this and the UN for sitting at their expensive deks, doing nothing.

Madeline Albright had a laugh when she was reported that the Dutch troops were in big trouble. General Janvier called back air-support and handed over Dutchbat as a swap for 2 French pilots who were captured by the Serbs.

For all, it was a Muslim who threw a handgranate and killed a young Dutch soldier. Still Dutchbatters kept on doing the best they could helping the Muslims. But it seems you enjoy drowning yourselves in your victim-role.

Get a live of yourselves and send your stupid postcards to those who are really responsable.

Or, is this maybe another effort to get even more money from the Dutch governement, again playing up on the guilt-trip.

BTW, it is NOT a medal!!!! It's a pin, meant as an excuse from the Dutch governement that Dutchbat III was blamed mistakenly under the influence of your kind of lies.

Just start builing up your country again, do something usefull and learn from your own mistakes in stead of pointing vingers at non-guilty partys.

(For example; start wondering where the well equiped Muslim-army was when the Serbs started to invade the enclave of Srebrenica. I'll tell you! They left the enclave over 24 hours before July 11th 1995. Leaving their Muslim-brothers to be driven into the arms of their killers. A political decision who cost over 8000 innocent man and boys their lives. They were simply sacrificed to fuell the dirty game of blaming the wrong ones and keeping the real truth away from the public.)

This whole lie benefits your strugle to keep a myth alive. A job well done. But in the mean time more and more people get the real truth. And this will come back to you as a boomerang sooner or later.

Aferim? Look into the mirror and get of your high hill.

Bg anon said...

Oh the propensity of armed forces and governments to reward their own (and to condone their own war crimes whilst condemning others but thats another topic).

But I do think the emphasis should always be placed at the top of the pile. The Dutch soldiers were ill equipped and not numerous enough to be able to influence the situation. That is the fault of the nation states involved that decided on their number - not the soldiers themselves. And the Dutch force were not the ones who carried out the killing so criticism of them is misplaced.

PS Eric, whats up with the blog, its taking forever and a day to load?

Eric Gordy said...

Hey there Bganon, yeah, loading is slow today, must be a problem with Blogger. I have a feeling that some of these Dutch folks may not agree with everything I say, imagine.

Anonymous said...

"For example; start wondering where the well equiped Muslim-army was when the Serbs started to invade the enclave of Srebrenica. I'll tell you! They left the enclave over 24 hours before July 11th 1995. Leaving their Muslim-brothers to be driven into the arms of their killers."

The men all left in a large group of around 15,000 and had a lot of Serb territory to trek through. It is said that most of the army did make it to Tuzla and other Muslim controlled territory, but that the Muslim government prevented the Red Cross from getting their names.

When the Serbs got to Srebrenica mainly only the women, children and elderly had been gathered at Potocari on orders of the UN and their leaders since days earlier - even before the fighting.

The Muslims left on Serb civilian buses escorted by the Dutch. There is no evidence of them being or looking injured when they arrived at Tuzla airport. They had press to great them.

They haven't found and identified 8,000 bodies of Muslims.

Most of the identified were part of the army.

I'd like to see a list and names and autopsy reportes of any alleged "boys" killed.

Seems they count those barely under 18, yet of age when people joined the army, around 16 as "boys".

Eric Gordy said...

One of the best sources to respond to the spurious claims maid by "Anonymous" (hello, "Ida"!) is the testiomony of Jean-Rene Ruez at the Krstic trial. It begins here:

http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/des_ar/May252000.html#Seite3445

Despite several efforts to move and destroy bodies, they continue to be found. To the remarks characterizing the victims I won't bother to respond.

Eric Gordy said...

In the unlikely event that anybody is interested in the last poster's claims, since that person did not give sources, I will. The source is Milan Bulajic. Here are a few samples:

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/Bosnia/Srebrenica/Not-a-genocide.html
http://guskova.ru/misc/docs/2004-may
http://www.vidovdan.org/article689.html

Uvazeni znastvenik, nego sta!

Anonymous said...

"Despite several efforts to move and destroy bodies, they continue to be found. To the remarks characterizing the victims I won't bother to respond."

The bodies are unidentified and NOT found in Srebrenica. Many have been found in Serb villages which were raided by Naser Oric and his 28th Division.

Also, large amounts of people were killed in eastern Bosnia (and the rest as well) during WWII and WWI. There was never even a fraction of the concerted effort to find all the bodies from those massacres by the Ustasha (of which local Bosnian Muslims did join), the Germans, the Austrians, and so on.

I've heard that 80% of the bodies they've been finding since 1996 are completely skeletinized. That shows that the bodies could very well be from decades ago, just as well as the last war.

One must also ask why isn't anyone interested in the Bosnian Muslim military records. They would list soldiers and have records of the names and number who made it to Tuzla and other Muslim-held territory after leaving without a fight.

Do you know a Muslim soldier says they were ordered away from their defensive positions which were all around Srebrenica and "strong" in his words, by his brigade commander and that the UN and the Muslim authorities told the women and children to go to Potocari.

This was before there was any fighting - the Muslim soldier didn't remark on any incoming fire at all.

The Muslim soldier, quoted in the book "After the Fall: Srebrenica Survivors in St. Louis" (and there are other Srebrenica soldiers and men pictured and interviewed in the book), said they were ordered to do that "in case of an attack".

It is obvious that Srebrenica was prepared to be evacuated and the Muslim army removed so the Serbs could "take" it.

The Muslim army in Srebrenica was several times LARGER than the Serb forces. They were in the defensive position and good fighting terrain, which is an advantage. Yet they simply WALKED OUT.

It was all planned to neaten things for Dayton.

Why is there no scrutiny on the Muslim command to remove their forces and evacuate before any fighting began?

The Serbs simply could not have taken Srebrenica if those soldiers did not de-man their positions and stayed to fight. The Serbs had basically nothing to do but walk in.

Anonymous said...

My source is this book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/After-Fall-Srebrenica-Survivors-Louis/dp/1883982367

The soldier who claimed he/they were ordered to leave their defensive positions all around the city was Hamil Becirovic.

What's interesting is that the book, written to push the propaganda, actually in key ways shows you the fall was quite different than how it is generally portrayed in the media - if you read close the interviews.

For one: the greatest separation of men from women was done before the Serbs got to the city - with the women and children ordered to go to Potocari days before by the UN and Muslim leadership (and they were even warned that they couldn't be protected if they went back to their homes - some did go back and forth to their houses during those day), and the men told to gather at a certain place - which they did in numbers estimated from 12,000 - 18,000 (according to the men interviewed and the Dutch Srebrenica report. Then the men left in shifts during the night into the early morning and there was no fighting or sight of Serbs within the city. Even as the last group left there was nothing said about Serb interference and they cleared the city too. The city was all prepared for evacuation in advance of the Serbs' arrival and several thousands of men were already separated as well.

Two: People interviewed in the book are Srebrenica men and they are alive and well. There are photos and mention of other male relatives (fathers, friends) living in St. Louis or other parts of Bosnia.

Three: None of the children in the family or women was ever injured during the war or leaving. They all appear healthy and unscathed.

Four: About two relatives died from landmines in 1992, not from being shot by Serbs. Probably they are buried at the cemetary in Srebrenica which presents everyone as being executed during the fall. They do not appear to separate out battle deaths, accidental deaths, or natural causes.

Five: Indeed, one of the relatives, a young man who was a soldier as well did go missing during the fall and wasn't found still during the books publication around 1999, has been in fact found dead. I saw his name on a list of identified about a year ago. However he was definitely not a civilian and the propaganda sometimes claims that they were 7 or 8 thousand CIVILIAN males killed. Yet he was a soldier, so they are including soldiers who died as part of the "genocide". Also, he very well could have been killed during some of the skirmishing which happened once they got into Serb territory.